Pivot Or Die

totally derails your life. It's like, I don't I wasn't really on a rail ever. I was just kind of wandering. Man, [music] I this is overwhelming. Like, okay, you like go for a walk. Just go to work and be like, All right. Uh let's just get through the day. >> [laughter] >> God, will you still love me if I don't foster? And that [music] just like destroys me. In the best way. Yeah, in the best way. >> Welcome back to the Pivot to Thrive podcast, everyone. My name is Seth Kaser. I'm your host and today I am joined by my good friend David Orgill. >> Hello. Hello. >> Um David is a phenomenal storyteller and videographer and genuinely I just I was just saying this a second ago too, but I just feel creatively inspired when I'm around David Orgill. And so I'm just I'm excited to have you on the podcast, man, and thanks for being on. >> Yes, I'm super happy to be here and I wanted to kick it off with how I know Seth and how I remember him always. I have a five a four-year-old almost five-year-old and when he was about to be born we had a meal train go out at our church and I remember not knowing who that really went out to. I don't remember like knowing your name specifically that well. You must have been just first coming and hanging out or I didn't know who you were. And all of a sudden we got like this huge donation for dinner. Like it was like a hundred bucks from like a kid in [laughter] my opinion. >> Yeah, 100%. >> And I was like, who is this kid like who is this guy? Like why why are they doing this? I think it came with like a text too that was just like, love you, man. Like, this is for you. Like, just like to some like note of just like, who is this generous and this thoughtful and kind to a person they barely know. >> Man. >> And I feel like that's literally how you are defined in my mind. It's like, that's that guy. And I feel like every time I see you like through as our paths have crossed crossed throughout life at like Barnabas and other things like that. It's like you're always just a massive light in my life when I run into you it's just like always just uh encouragement and usually yeah an encouraging word or a prayer or something that is just like pushing me forward and so dude you popped into my life with just like what's up dude and just generous gift and you continue to be this awesome. I would just say a light in my life anytime I run into you I feel like I leave like lifted. Dang. >> Likewise bro. >> [laughter] >> I'm stoked. I didn't I'm so happy to be here. It's one of those things again I I don't specifically remember that one right? But um yeah thanks for sharing that with me. >> Yeah I think sometimes I like to call those things out because it's like you might have just forgotten or it might have been a small thing but sometimes the things we do like that it actually like like I'll how long has it been? Five years almost? I think about that every time your name comes up. That's crazy. >> [laughter] >> I didn't know that. Yeah yeah yeah. That's great. Um well yeah I mean I just I feel like I just got an intro bro. >> [laughter] >> That's awesome. That's great. Um well so so David can you kind of tell us a little bit like what I'm just curious. I love these conversations too because I get to sit across from some of my friends that I we we've known each other we've hung out we talk in these different things we've talked in different seasons of our life and I know generally kind of what's you know what your life looks like maybe but it's like getting to hear um what what made you you kind of thing over your life? Um so I literally in the beginning of these podcasts I love to just start with like take me all the way back. It's like you're born and like what is that what are you born into? And um what does kind of life look like from from there? >> Dude I was [snorts] so excited to excited and afraid because I don't know my story that well. It's been so interesting to learn this as a grown up person who's 32 who has three kids. Uh I think I just don't take a lot of time to take inventory of where I've come from, what I've gone through, and where I'm at. And that's something that I'm realizing is really important to be more present and be more of myself is to understand that better. So, I'm actually really excited. I was >> Well, welcome to the Pivot to Bad podcast, dude. This is the place to [laughter] do it. >> And if I, yeah, if I stumble through it, uh, that's probably why. But, I I was thinking about how to answer that cuz I was like, oh, yeah, what do you leave it? I'm a storyteller. What do you leave in? What do you leave out? What What's interesting? What's not? I think best way to tell my story is that my story is defined by love in so many different places. So, where I started was I was born into a super loving family. I was born into a Christian home. So, I I knew about Jesus growing up. Like, that was just like my reality. >> Yeah. >> That the you you you wake up into whatever reality you're born into, and that's okay. This is how life works cuz my parents are telling me this. My parents tell me this. My community is that. So, and my parents were super intentional and loving. I was homeschooled. Uh, I think I was like, as far as parenting goes, was given tons of love and attention. >> Were you homeschooled all the way through? >> Uh, all the way up till 6th grade, actually. So, I have four four kids total. I have two younger brothers, one older sister. And I think once all four of us were like fully homeschooling, like, uh, from my brother to my sister, my mom was like, I can't [laughter] handle this. >> She had three boys, too, like >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> So, me and my sister went off to school. She was in 8th grade, I was in 6th grade. >> Where are you in the order of your siblings? >> I'm the firstborn son, but the secondborn overall. >> Okay. >> Uh, yeah. So, >> So, it's girl, boy, boy, boy? >> Yeah, exactly. >> Yeah. Yeah. [clears throat] >> Yeah. And I think I was kind of also raised by my sister. Like, she was very like opinionated and wanted to do things, and I am not that way. I'm kind of just like go with the flow type of person. And so, I feel like I was also like co-raised by her. A lot of people would be surprised by our relationship growing up because siblings often fight and get like hate each other or whatever. That That was what was on Nickelodeon at the time most of the time, you know. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> [gasps] >> But we loved each other and we hung out and she was really like an awesome sister to me and yeah, I'm super grateful for that relationship. >> Wow. >> So yeah. >> So you're born into this family, you guys are homeschooled um up until sixth grade. >> Yes. >> And from there? >> Yeah, I found that we were really >> sixth grade, high school. Are there like some moments that stick out or like what are you what are you into at that point in your life? >> Yeah, I don't know. I think I I never knew the answer to that question. >> Mhm. >> My dad would ask me that all the time. I remember like specifically like driving home from I don't know, basketball practice or something being like, "David, like what are you what are you passionate about? What are you into?" And I never had a good answer for that. I never had a good answer for that. Um and that I think >> Which which is just so interesting now cuz I know you as this guy that's just like film and storytelling and writing. It's just like this is this is your passion kind of thing, right? That's in my mind when I think about you, I think of a person who is passionate about being creative. >> Yes. >> Right? But you're saying that back in junior high, back in high school, that wasn't so much the case. >> Yeah. And I think I always like didn't get along with school, I'd say. Like it wasn't I didn't come easily. Wasn't excited by it. My favorite class was art class. I would look forward to I was decent at drawing and painting and so on. >> remember do you remember the name of your art teacher? >> Uh yes, Miss Thompson. The best human being alive. >> [laughter] >> I love her so much. >> Surely. >> She was so kind and as I look back as an adult like was speaking like a lot of like truth and love into our lives and like even just the way she she she presented herself in that classroom, like um yeah, this is my favorite class, my favorite place to be. >> Wow. >> And uh so then two things happened in high school. I think that another like love happened was I got to meet the girl that I ended up marrying and had been married to for 13 years in eighth grade. >> In eighth grade? >> from Canada, her family moved from Canada and came to this tiny Christian school. So uh our class size is probably about 40 kids total, probably about 30 were boys, 10 were girls. And all of a sudden a couple new girls show up in this gorgeous girl comes in and I'm like, "Oh my gosh, who's that?" >> Was it like Was it like sharks? Like everybody was like >> Oh yeah, 100% and I couldn't compete. I I tell people this all the time is our story is I was best friend zoned. So I think I fell in love first and she was like, "This guy's really nice and that's about it, you know?" >> [laughter] >> And so I'll keep him close and you can be my best friend. She called me best friend all the time. And I >> didn't like it because she would date other people and I'm like, "I don't want to be a best friend. I want to be your boyfriend." >> [laughter] >> So I think in high school I actually told her that I loved her like on AIM or something like that, super lame, but I had massive feelings for her for a long time. >> Yeah. >> Um and our paths went, you know, different ways, uh but in col- for first freshman year of college we got together and I was like >> Really? >> first time we like hung out, I was like, "I'm going to marry you. I love you." >> Are you serious, dude? [laughter] That's the story? >> Yeah. And so >> Wow. >> there's like a lot of backstory between that, which is like we were super close and like best friends is a great way to describe it. We talked all the time, like we almost kissed like many times throughout high school, but never did and it was always this like I knew she liked me, too, and I knew there was something there. It wasn't like a just a one-way thing. Um >> She was way out of my league. Like just way better looking. She dated quarterbacks and like older guys, whatever you know. I was like this nerdy home schooled kid like I was like She was just out of my league okay. And then I started to grow up a little bit. I got good at basketball I became the basketball captain. >> Really? >> I got a little taller a little leaner probably got a new haircut and I started dating someone else and I stopped talking to her. And then I became very attractive to her. >> [laughter] >> That's kind of the point I would say she might tell you a different story where I'm like oh that's when you actually started to like me. >> [laughter] >> So yeah that that part that that was a massive that's a massive part of of that moment in my life I think and also finding filmmaking I think. >> Yeah. >> That's like that other love that would define my life is because of who I am I think I'm not someone who is naturally hard working or like put my head down and just like grind at something like and I think I kind of knew that intuitively maybe from an early age and like so I didn't really know where to go or like what to do with and college was coming up and my my my mom is very academically minded and I was going to college and like I that was not an option so you have to pick a major and you're going to college you have to start applying all the stuff and I'm like I just [snorts] like don't like school. >> right? >> And then a friend of mine was like a filmmaker Matt Champagne he's still a filmmaker he's an awesome dude and he let me download like Final Cut he helped me like download editing software to my computer. I started making like videos on my my parents like point and shoot thing and he was like encouraging to my terrible terrible videos that I was putting together. And I saw filmmaking on like the college majors. >> Really? >> And was like dude can I do that? And >> But before that I mean going into college that was like your first >> Yeah. >> experience with film and cameras and all that kind of stuff? >> It was just something I started doing for fun uh and started messing around with my friends and me and my friend actually started a small basically like a YouTube channel, but we were posting on Facebook and it was like a comedy show basically and we'd film these little skits to making fun of our Christian school. And it got >> That's awesome. >> It it it was fun and I learned how to edit that way and I just kind of liked the idea of filming things and putting together a story of some kind. I don't know. I [clears throat] really didn't know what I was doing though. >> Yeah. >> I I truly was just like I think just a kid who's just like wandering. >> Mhm. >> It's like I don't know. What am I supposed to be doing right now by the way? >> Like I'm just a kid. How am I supposed to have things figured out? I don't know. I don't know. I know it's not school. I know I'm not good at that. It doesn't come naturally to me. My sister was very gifted. Do you know the Torrey program at Biola? >> Yeah. >> very like You have to be either be really intelligent to A apply and get in and then B to go through it. You have to like read like this size of a book a week of like philosophy and all kinds of things. That was her. >> Yeah. >> Just >> was kind of behind that comparing myself a little bit like that's not me at all. >> Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. >> So I really didn't know where to go. And I think the only thing that I like saw that I liked that was also listed as a college major >> was >> was film making. >> film. Yeah, yeah. [laughter] So you start going to college to study film and at that same time you start dating who's now your wife, right? >> Um and I mean talk about that a little bit. You start to to learn about film and start to I would imagine maybe dive in a little bit or learn some new things, right? What's What was that kind of like for you? Was that kind of when there's a light bulb that goes on a little bit that's like this is what I'm passionate about? I don't think so. Yeah, I don't think so. I think I learned that there are filmmakers, like filmmakers who would just go off about all these films and their favorite directors and all these things. And I was like, okay, cool. Like I I think I grew up Vimeo used to be like the place for cool videos. And there was these like short documentaries on the internet that were like 5 minutes long, really artistically shot and meaningful and I loved those. And that to me was like that I love that. I didn't really love movies so much. And so I think I started to see like, oh, there's people who want to make movies, like write stories and cast people and work with actors. And I didn't actually I wasn't really drawn to that too much. I think I just liked making images, like [clears throat] having a camera and like using lenses and like creating a beautiful image is what I realized, oh, I really like this part. Like DP is what they call it, director of photography, is what I was kind of like started to get labeled as or like tagged as is like, oh, David's a DP. He likes to work on the image. He's really focused on like making a beautiful image, basically. That's probably what I learned there is like, oh, that that's kind of where I land in this community. I love all the stuff that's happening here. It's really fun. But that is actually that's probably that brings me to the like pivot point of my life. Like in that moment of my life, I was raised Christian. I was like I knew who Jesus was. I had given my life to him. But I didn't really know what that meant. I think I for the first time in my life was outside of a controlled environment. And so because I grew up in a super loving home, I think I was protected from a lot of the world. I was restricted probably is a good way to say I was grounded a lot. I was really highly watched, which as a parent, that's a a huge amount of love from my parents. Looking back, it wasn't fun to be a super watched like that. But there was a limit of freedom. And so how could I really own something? Because it was kind of controlled. >> Yeah. >> And I think as soon as I stepped out to college, it was like, "Oh, I'm on my own. I can kind of do whatever I want." >> Mhm. >> And in that moment, I was like, "Well, what do I want to do?" And I didn't have a really strong conviction to like follow God, follow Jesus, like get to know him, like give my life to him. I was more just like, "I kind of want to have fun. I'm kind of bored. I don't really like school. I want to have fun." >> Yeah. >> And so, with that freedom, I kind of just started like partying a little bit, like had some friends who would drink, and I didn't really drink, but I started to like freshman year, some sometime between freshman year and um the next year after that. And immediately got caught by my parents. >> [laughter] >> And immediately got in so much trouble. >> Cuz were you still living at home during this time? >> No, I was at Biola. >> you You Okay, you went to Biola. >> Yeah. And uh my mom always says, "I am blessed in a way that I can never get away with anything." She's like, "God has blessed you because you can never get away with it." My whole life has just been true. Like, I cannot hide anything. Almost immediately caught. Like, my big party season of life lasted about a month. >> [laughter] >> I have a I have a good friend of mine, literally who like again, he's he's kind of he's been through it, and he's he's gone through a lot, and has has had some struggles with substance abuse and these different things, but in high school, I I literally remember it's like he was like going to go sneak out and like do this whole crazy night, and do this whole thing, and literally like like his mom has a dream that >> Dude, moms are on it. >> His mom has a dream that that night he was going to go and do all of this stuff. So, she wakes up, walks down the hallway, goes into his room, and says, "I know you're going to go and do this and this and this and this and this. So, I'm not going to let you leave the house. >> Crazy, right? >> Same thing. It's almost like we're praying for that for my kids. God. >> [laughter] >> God, please. Uh but I I mean, yeah, I think that that is a uh a blessing. >> Yeah. >> Right? To to not be able to get away with with the the things. I always I always said for myself, it was almost like um it was almost like God had me on a leash. >> Yes. >> That was like >> Yes. >> No, when I'm when I'm walking the dog, like I I let the dog go off a little bit, but like I'm never not in control of the dog. >> Yes. >> You know? >> Yes. >> Um >> Mhm. >> And it always felt like I would like come back and be pulled back and back and back. That That was how I would how I described growing [snorts] up within the church. Same Same concept. >> 100%. And I think the like and then for me, the next part of my life, which is like the next part of I would say defined by love, is that we got pregnant. Like we got pregnant. I was 19, she was 18. We're just ending our freshman year of college. So, still in that freshman year. Uh and that just like totally changed our life. >> Talk about a pivot moment. >> Yes. I would say that is my moment for sure. What I the easiest one to think about. But it also is that same line of like short leash of like I was kind of like I was I was 18, 19. First time with freedom and I was not being productive with it. Do you know what I mean? Like what was I doing at that point in my life? Like I was just trying to live that fun. >> Yeah. >> Like and not even a terrible way. Not even like some crazy story, but just like that's kind of where I was at. But at the same time was also kind of pursuing Jesus. I was at Biola. Like I loved Jesus. I knew who he was. I knew I We got Me and Katie got baptized, actually. Like 2 months before we got pregnant. Like we're just broken people who are actively being loved by Jesus, pursuing him, and also dealing with our humanity. And so, I actually think who I I mean, I know who I am today is shaped positively by that moment because it kind of fast-forwarded what I would guess would have been 4 or 5 years of more of that, of more of just like I didn't have a huge sense of direction, I didn't have a huge sense of purpose. So, of course I was just going to be >> But you're you're 18, 19, and now it's like, "Holy crap, we've got a kid on the way. Like we got to figure this thing out. We got to we got to we got to figure something out, right?" And so, kind of what was your what was your mindset in this? I mean, that's a big thing for a 18, 19-year-old to to be faced with. >> Yeah. Yeah, and I think to find by love is the best way to phrase it because I love and love Katie more than anything in this world. >> Like Katie's your wife, right? >> Yeah, my wife, yeah. >> [laughter] >> And so, we were dating and this happened, like it was positive. Like I Yes, it was scary, it was big, it was unexpected. That also meant like I know exactly what I'm doing. I'm going to marry you, and we're going to raise this kid, we're going to be a family. That's also beautiful and amazing. Like we weren't ready for it, for sure, but so full of love, like so happy I get to be married to her. Like I was beyond grateful that that was the outcome of that, almost. I remember people telling me like, "David, I'm really glad like you're doing the right thing." Like people like just being like, "Oh, you got someone pregnant, you should marry them no matter what." >> [snorts] >> That's not why I did it. I was [laughter] like, "Okay, that I wasn't trying to do the right thing. I was trying to make this I love her more than anything. I'm like I literally feel so happy and lucky that I now I get to be married at 19 to the girl of my dreams." Like, so it was um it was it was both. And so I think when I look back and try to answer that question, it's like it's it's it's it's complicated. And I had many feelings. I felt very overwhelmed and scared and like uh guilty and full of shame and like I messed up and like uh I'm bad for this and like so many bad things are going to happen because of this like um but it's such a such an interesting thing to to have as a challenge because it's also such a beautiful thing. Yeah. So it's like, yes, this is crazy. And you're a parent, but like it's one it's it's probably the most beautiful thing that can happen in your life. And so I think I felt like what an amazing thing to help young David figure out who he is in the world and figure out what he believes and and actually orient his life in somewhat of a direction that is was more productive than where I was at. And so I feel like for the first time in my life I was like, what do I believe? Yeah. Me. What am I going to tell my kid? I don't know if this happened to you, but I feel like when I had a kid I was like, I have to know the answers. Like we we found out we we didn't even have a we we just found out we were pregnant and I was like, like what I need to know literally everything. Like I need to know >> [laughter] >> Like she's going to ask me so many questions. I have to know these things for sure. Like I have to know. So I think that helped me go like, oh, what or what how am I going to live my life? >> Yeah. No, I I think genuinely like that with Dougie, our son, and just he's he's um developmentally delayed and and just kind of something where it's like, I don't at this point, I don't know if Doug is going to ever have like the deep intellectual questions and meaning like sitting in front of me going, "Dad, what is the meaning of life?" kind of thing. But now we have Peace, who's our daughter. >> Mhm. >> And she is um you know, she's developing normally and it's like she's 4 months old right now. And it's like oh my gosh, you are watching what I do. >> Yeah. Oh, yeah. >> And you are doing what I do. >> Yes. >> And like >> [laughter] >> Yes. >> This is wild. I'm feeling that. >> Yes. >> Um >> And I think yeah, it's like it just I think it's a good practice embrace that feeling I think and like what what's being brought up and what is like the thing you should focus on. I think it's just a helpful You don't need to know. You've got a long way to go. >> [laughter] >> But it's great for you to take that as like a Oh, cool. Like this is like a moment that is defining a little bit that you can kind of go Let me Let me Let me put some time and thought into this and decide what I think and believe and and and wrestle with some of that. >> Yeah, and so you're wrestling through that as a as a 19-year-old. >> Yeah. >> And I mean, I I honestly I I relate with what you're saying kind of being like faced with this giant this giant thing that is it's like you're like, "Oh, here's the path that I'm walking down." And all of a sudden it's like a giant boulder gets put in the [laughter] front of you. And it's not like a Oh, man, I really wanted to go that way. But instead it's like a No, I have Of course, like I have to walk around it. >> Yes. >> And so I love I mean, I love what you're saying going like, "Well, of course I'm going to marry you and we're going to raise this kid together." That it's it's almost like because I love you and this is just what we're going to do. >> Yeah. >> Right? Um But in that's a lot easier said than done, too, right? I mean, that's a that's a big thing. And so kind of um you know, walk me through I mean from there do you guys you guys get married um, right around that time um, and and then you guys have your first kid kind of thing, right? So, I mean that whole season kind of can you speak to that for a little bit? >> Yeah, um, yeah, I think it's yeah, I'll I'll speak to the challenges of it too first is just that please. I think that that was a really hard time. Um, because like the how you said it too it's like I didn't really know where I was going in life. Like I didn't really have a good plan or like a lot of people are like, oh man, like totally derailed your life. It's like I wasn't really on a rail ever. >> [laughter] >> I was just kind of wandering and this actually railed my life was like, [laughter] look, here's a path and here's a ton of motivation. Like and I'm a guy who's like motivated by love. Like I grew up playing sports and like I I played basketball and that was like the main sport and I never did well with coaches who were like just like tough love. Like just go like harder like you know, like there's people who are fired up in in that environment. For some reason just doesn't connect with me. Actually makes me like defeated a little bit. >> [laughter] >> And there were some coaches who would like believe in you and be like, dude, I think you can do this. Like I've seen you and they're like they're they're imparting courage to you and they're believing in you and there's like this love that's a part of that. That's how I motivate. That's what drives me. And so, when it was a big challenge but there was so much love motivating. It's like I getting married to Katie. Like I'm going to try to love her the best I can. I'm going to try to be the best husband I can. I'm going to try to figure this out for her and my kid. Like this massive motivation of love that was there but I think a little bit of like I have to be real with life now which >> I was avoiding the whole time. Like I was kind of avoiding the real pain or hardship of like being a great student. Like cost something. Discipline, doing your own work, showing up on time. Like you know, I was trying to figure out my life in college, but not really. Like now it's like you have to figure this out. Now you have to make this much money. You have to like figure Like you don't have a degree anymore. Are you going to get a degree on your free time? Like Forget about filmmaking for a little bit. Like that's not important. Like you have important things. You have life to worry about now. >> Yeah. >> Like welcome to the real world in some sense of like it was fun while it lasted, but like childhood is over basically. Like no more I'm just going to figure it out. Or I'm just going to like, you know, it's like No, it's on. Now it's on. And so what that looked like was trying to quickly figure out how to make money. Uh that was like the first main problem. >> [laughter] >> Have real quick question. Um have you Have you read Fathered by God? >> No. >> Have I Did we This is just a conversation. I think I just wrote this book down. I was like a friend just recommended me this book. [laughter] That's so funny. Cuz because it just it's so I mean what you just said of being like, yeah, it is this pinnacle moment where it's like childhood's over now. >> Mhm. >> Time to dive in. >> Yeah. >> And this is the rest of your life. >> Yeah. >> When it's almost like that wasn't expected. >> Yes. >> Right? >> Yeah. >> Um I That book is just incredible and talks about It's a It's a book by Jonathan Eldredge and it talks about um the different stages of being a man. >> Yeah. >> Right? And so um it says there's the uh the the six stages that he says is the beloved son. >> Mhm. >> The cowboy. >> Mhm. >> The warrior. The lover. The king. And then the sage. >> That's awesome. >> Those are the six that he talks about. And in In book he talks about the cowboy being thrust into the lover phase, or the cowboy being thrust in and being a king. When you're a king, you have a dominion over this thing that you you need to rule over this and and provide for this whatever that responsibility might be. That was his definition of a king. And I mean, that that jarring thing where it's kind of like, "Oh, man, I skipped a couple steps." And I mean, how did you deal with that? >> Uh it what what part of that? Like >> I mean, you're it's one of those things. I mean, again, maybe it's it's like there is no dealing with it and it's just kind of like, "Yeah, this is what it is now." But I mean, you're you're 18, 19, you're cast into this thing and it's like, "All right, childhood's over. >> Yeah. >> I got to make money and provide for a wife and provide for a family. Um how did you wrestle with that? How did you internally? >> Yeah. Yeah, I think that I could only really start to understand this now or like as I'm older. Um but at the time I was like put my head down and and try to figure it out. But I think what I did was start to disassociate a little bit, which is like I think my my go-to move to survive life is like check out. >> Yeah. >> Like whatever my instincts are like numbing and checking out when life gets hard is like that's what my body wants to do. I don't think I really realized I was doing it at the time. Um but I think it just meant like I don't know. Like not being awake as as I am today. I I know that's a crazy thing to say, but like just a little bit senses like dull to life. Like Okay, if I have this job, then I have this job. Like uh I think I listened to the most podcast of my life at that time. Well, I my dad owns a business and so the the one business that would accept a 19-year-old and put him on payroll full time and pay them the most and also be flexible with their schedule if they wanted to go to college. If your dad owns that business, it's a great place to work. So, it was it was there. It's over in Stanton and he does like um he it's it's connected to the construction industry and they supply like all the waterworks piping, fire sprinklers, and and pipes and stuff like that. So, it was kind of plopped in there and just like, "Hey, let's figure out a job for this guy. >> [laughter] >> He's got to He's got to figure it out." Um but it went from like college where I was playing a lot of video games and like just living for fun to I'm up at like 6:00 a.m. I'm over there super early trying to figure it out like awkwardly doing jobs that I'm not great at. I started driving a lot like doing deliveries like things like that helping out in the warehouse with just like inventory like I don't know, manual labor type of stuff trying to help him with his computer system and just find something, but I feel like in that time it just was like kind of checking out from reality to survive that drastic change in my life. I was super happy that I was married and with Katie and so like that's where a lot of my like life and joy came from, but I think I would just go to work and be like all right, let's just get through the day. >> [laughter] >> And and how long would you say that that that season kind of lasted? >> Yeah. Um it's something that I'm still like coming back to I would say. Um because I I had this like again, not to get too crazy, but like this weird vision of like who I am was like frozen in time where it's like I needed to do things and just make this happen. So, just make it happen and don't worry about David too much. And so, not consciously, but subconsciously, I think I kind of just made that choice. And so, I felt like just disconnected from a lot of myself. Not in a crazy way, not in a noticeable way at all. Like, if you met me, you'd be like, "Oh, yeah, this guy's fine." >> Yeah. >> Uh but, I only started to notice it after. So, um I did that job for 2 years and I kept doing like random side projects. People would ask me to come shoot their wedding. Um I started going to Mariners Church and um we did a small group and the leader of my small group happened to run the video team. And one of the things you have to do as a part of Rooted, their small group program, is volunteer. And I was like, "Oh, I love video. I'll Let me volunteer with your team." >> And so, I started volunteering and then he really liked me and and wanted me to take that position and I got a full-time position at Mariners Church, which is the first place that paid me to do video work. And I felt like that's where God started to like check back in and like I would say like defrost myself. Like, if I was frozen up, it was like this this healing place of like "Oh, yeah, I love filmmaking. Like, oh, yeah, like, this is who I am. Oh, yeah, like, whoa, I'm like weirdly remembering who I am." And I think since then that's kind of been this journey of like remembering who I am. It's been like what God has been like so graciously and patiently and lovingly like share with me again and again. >> Yeah. >> Um which leads me to a whole 'nother topic of like identity and all that stuff. >> Mhm. >> Who I truly am is the question I ask all the time. I still am trying to figure out, but the best answer I can I know is true is that I'm deeply, deeply loved. I'm God's kid and he loves the crap out of me. >> [laughter] >> That's like that is the essence of who I am as a person. >> Yeah. >> Um and that has been something that he has been just showing me again and again and reminding me of like, "David, like this [snorts] is who you are. Like, that's who you are." Um and so, yeah, that has been a journey. I think I just like knowing that deeper and deeper every day is like I get to know know in the sense of I know it in the my body. Not know like you're telling me, "Oh, cool. Like God's real. He loves you." Like I grew up with that, but it's like dude, he's genuinely real and he likes me. He like knows me and enjoys me. Like I love my kids. >> [snorts] >> And that just like destroys [laughter] me. In the best way. In the best way. So, yeah, all that to say, that's that's where I think the like where God has led me through all that. Um and just reminding me like of who I am. Like, that is That's who David is. It That's That's the best way to understand that. And then what he does outside of that isn't as important. Like I do a lot of things. You know, I'm a dad. I'm a husband. I'm a filmmaker. Um but that isn't not the core of who I am. Um it's not the source of my identity. Um So, yeah. >> Wow. >> Yeah, so that's something he's actively working in me today. I think that's why it's just so raw is like, "Dude, I I feel him. Like feel him loving me." like, which is crazy. I didn't grow up with that. Like, I feel like, you know, growing up as a Christian, it's like so much talk or head knowledge um the the feeling of love is kind of lost. Um or not experienced all the time. >> Yeah. >> And that's what I get to experience now as like um an older person, as someone who is walking with Jesus for a while and getting to really know him actually a little bit more and more. So, yeah. >> I You know, one of the things that um as as different people have have talked about their lives and about their experience with with faith and and things a lot of the times, too. Um when you when you're saying like, man, like, I I feel him or this is something that he's speaking to me right now or I'm getting to know who Jesus is, right? Um that's something for us growing up in the church that that might be familiar language, right? But, to somebody that's that might be watching this right now, that's like, what is this guy talking about? That Jesus is talking to him, right? So, it's like, what what is that kind of um what does that kind of like tangibly look like a little bit? Can can you explain that at all? Or is it something that is unexplainable? >> Yeah. Um >> What does that look like when you're communing with with God? Kind of thing for you. >> I think the best way to describe it is like, you have to put yourself in a position that isn't trying to figure it out. Like, if you go to the movies and you're like, cool, that's the new Chris for Nolan movie coming out, right? And you're like walking in and you're like, this is going to be so sick. >> in with like a notebook and you're like, >> [laughter] >> okay. >> I would love to. And you're excited about something, right? It's like a cool thing and then you watch the movie and like you are going through it and you're like, oh, this is awesome. This is awesome. This is really interesting story. You start getting sucked into it and then at some point you're just like rocked. Like rocked. I don't know how like I just get a feeling inside me. Uh often times for me I cry. >> [laughter] >> I'm emotional. But it can be however you feel or experience that feeling of like intense emotion um experienced like inside yourself. Um that can be like a sad one, like a angry one, um full of love one. Um I get the same feeling like when Katie said she wanted to marry me. And she's told me that she loved me. It was like this like I couldn't help it. It just like naturally welled up inside of me this overwhelming feeling. Feels so good. That love of like, "Oh my gosh, I'm loved." So it's that experience. But it's happening when I'm quieting myself and praying to Jesus, uh the God of the Bible, uh and asking, "Who am I?" to to that person, to that being. However that being looks, um I am experiencing that sometimes when I've had a friend or two or even a pastor just come and pray for me um and lay hands on me like we're just praying. We're just saying words. Uh we're addressing God. And then all of a sudden like like you're just sat in the movie. You didn't try to make it happen. You just I'm overwhelmed by love. And it's here not here. It's here like it's it's in me. It's emotional. I can feel it. And that that it's hard to explain or address like why or how, but it's like that's just been my experience. Like I I don't know. I I fell in love with Katie like and I that's just what happened. I don't know. This seems to happen to other humans. >> [laughter] >> When I listen to a really good song, go to a concert, like I feel something inside of me. I think that's why I love art, too. Like I there's something in me that is just lit up and I think um I've I've been able to experience more and more of that connected to Jesus. Um Um that's what God has been allowing me to experience or or know him more is like um less conceptually. >> Mhm. >> More Wow, I just I'm feeling loved. Like this is interesting. This is crazy. I don't I didn't try to I didn't beg for this. I didn't like work for this. Like I'm just knowing it more and it's a remembering thing which is weird which is like this is who I've always been. >> Mhm. >> And and I am now you could have accessed this whatever. >> Yeah. >> This has always been true. >> I think it's it's really interesting to contrast that with kind of what you what you had said. I I think it's it's always um you know, we come up with really creative I think really creative and and descriptive ways when we think about like like if you think about yourself >> Yes. >> right? Your self-image. >> Yeah. >> Um everybody has a a different way that they see that. >> Yes. >> You know? >> Is that a ball of light or is that a >> Yeah. >> dude or is that a >> Yeah. >> Like you know, I don't know. Is it Is it a figure or is it a ghost or whatever it is, right? But like you talking about during those years that was just like I need to figure this out and grind and this big pivot and change and um that it was almost like you were locked that that image of yourself was kind of like locked in time. >> Mhm. >> Frozen for that period of time. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And even in the way that you talk about it, it's it's almost like you're kind of like and that was okay for that time. >> Yeah. >> Right? Because that's what needed to happen. >> Sometimes life just happens. >> [laughter] >> Right? But going back and now talking about it being like that same that same person figure being like since the beginning I'm remembering who I was. >> Dude, that just >> I love it. >> Yes. >> Thank you for sharing all this, man. >> Yeah. Yeah, I have to say too from the full story is like very long, but I when that happened my in-laws took us in. We lived with them for like 7 years. They were so kind, so generous like the first thing we we found out with Katie was pregnant her her mom came and just hugged me. Says it's going to be okay. That was her reaction >> Really? >> And I was like so blew me away. My parents were incredibly supportive and loving and have helped us so much like in so many ways for the last 13 years. Um I know that we are beyond privileged when it comes to situations like that like um can be very messy when that happens in a young person's life and I feel like wow, we literally we got so blessed the whole like the hand we were dealt was like I love Katie so much. She's my soulmate like both of both of our parents like my parents her parents came around and supported us. My brother-in-law like has been a huge mentor and friend in my life like friends just like surrounded us in love like and so yeah, yes I went through all like those things internally, but like at the same time I was surrounded by this like army of people who were loving and supporting us like through this whole thing. And and my daughter like my daughter is who she is today because of the people in our lives like I think she's also was raised by her grandma and >> You said she's she said she's 13 now, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Just an amazing person. Like it's crazy crazy crazy. But yeah. So, what would you I always love this is kind of the the ending of this this question too to kind of round this out a little bit. I mean, what would you say to somebody who might be listening right now that is maybe in a similar situation where there's a either I mean I think speaking to two things right where it's it's one that is this there's an unexpected pregnancy. Yeah. What do I do? Kind of moment, right? And the other where it's like I'm just grinding and slaving away right now because this is what I have to do and I do feel frozen and disassociated and disconnected. Yeah. What do you say to to those people? Let's let's start with the the unexpected pregnancy kind of moment. Yeah. Were there with that were there things that like were there specific things or quotes or or books or podcasts that got you through that time that you would recommend to to other people? I know that's a big question. Yeah. No none that I can really think of. I actually the podcasts were kind of more of like a I just don't I want to zone out. Like I don't want to totally [clears throat] be here. So let me like half be here with the podcast. I think that's kind of how I use podcasts. >> [laughter] >> So I would say like my general answer is like when something big like that happens like what I would do today if let's I'm not sure what would happen but things could happen. Something that big happens today. I would really hope that I would check in to my life and and fully be awake to that pain and problem and whatever challenge was presented to me and just fully check into it. Um allow myself to fully experience that pain um or challenge or overwhelm or whatever that was instead of check out. Um and I think that's kind of what you're faced with um in varieties of different ways. We all I think do some version of that. So when you are confronted with something like that, I think it's like you have a choice. You have an option to check in or check out. And try try try to check in and and be okay. Like give yourself grace if you check out here and there, but just continue to choose to check in. I think just choose to be here, to be present, to um say this is a horrible thing if it's a big tell like someone dies in your family. Like just okay, this is horrible and and let it be. And I feel like just that is something I think I've maybe learned looking back is like oh the the more present I am to my life. Check in is the best word for it. Um is like that is that is the way. That is the way. >> I think that we can have a tendency to either live in the past or live in the future. Right? >> Yes and or for me I like just like be less present. Like I I I find myself and this is something I still am figuring out today as an adult with internet access is like social media, YouTube, Netflix, like there's all kinds of ways to like check out and just be less present is what I mean. Like when you want to have a tough day, it's like dude I just want to go home. I want to have a beer. I want to watch Netflix. It's just like that's me like I'm just leaning back out of my life. And so what that is is like I don't even know. I'm not going like past. I'm not even going future. I'm like I'm just doing like I don't really want to be here right now. I just want to like zone out. I just want a break from this pain or hardship or whatever stress I'm dealing with. Um and that there are better ways to deal with that. Like I think if you go to therapy for any time you're like, oh look there's positive ways of like when you have a challenging thing to like go through or experience like there are positive ways to give yourself that break and give yourself that like what your body is asking for of like man like this is overwhelming like okay like go for a walk. Like that's a way that you are caring for yourself but also not just like taking it all to the face like >> [laughter] [gasps] >> Yeah. >> You're able to to catch your breath a bit while whilst not totally numbing your mind. >> But that's checking in and that's what I learned from I'm sure Matt Haigler brought this up if he was on here. John Mark Comer's book Relentless Elimination of Hurry >> Yeah. >> is he just explained rest to me better where in my uh understanding if I had a super hard day or long shoot long week it's Friday night I have space I don't have work to do I would like to rest because I'm tired. >> Mhm. >> And and a lot of times I think that is grab a beer and watch Netflix. >> Mhm. >> And John Mark Comer's book is like that's not rest. You will wake up tomorrow and you will not feel rested. >> Mhm. >> And that >> What does he say that rest is then? >> that clicked for me. There's a way to rest. Like the Jewish people really figured it out with the Sabbath. Uh it was a commandment it is a commandment still I don't think it's changed [laughter] to rest and there is actually like there is a whole like uh I don't know if there are laws or ways to rest that are very specific. A lot of them took it very seriously that they got mad at Jesus for picking the weed like they would prepare all the all the meals. They wouldn't get There's some people today I was talking to a friend who a neighbor who's Jewish and they don't flick their light switches on or off on the Sabbath. So, they go People come over to their house on the Sabbath and say, "Please don't touch the lights. We keep them on because if you turn them off, I can't turn them on till the next day cuz I would consider that breaking my Sabbath cuz it would be some form of I'm like, "Wow, okay." So, all that to say, how you how you actually rest >> Yeah. >> is you you prepare for it, I think, one. Um it can be a long time, like You ever try to like take a break and just like relax in your office and it but it's all messy? It it's harder to because you just see all that work and so your mind starts to spinning even if your body's still. But, if you clean up your area, your desk, you have your things put in order, you go, "I do have things to do, but let me put them on Monday's to do list so that they're off of me." Like, you're literally like setting that all these like mental things down and that a friend of mine gave me a quick one to do, like, write down the list of the mental things you're holding before your Sabbath, crumble that up and throw in the in the trash. You can grab those tomorrow. But, do that literally that physical activity, it just releases you and it goes, "Okay, right now I'm just resting." And then resting means things that like give you rest and that is defined by you, I think. Um you can use your common sense to kind of figure those things out, but a lot of people it looks like coffees with friends, family meals together, walking is a big one, like playing games with my family is one, like and they're things where I'm very present but I'm all I'm just taking that time to not think about the things I have to do, whether it's work or chores or stuff like that. But, a lot of the time it looks way more like me being present and checked in to whatever's happening even if I am sitting in quiet. Like, something I love to do is like I go to the ocean and just like sit. Sometimes I pray, but sometimes I just sit. And that when I leave that, yeah, I walk away. I like okay, I'm I could I have some energy now. I have I have rested. >> I think that's a great that's a great way to to like take a pulse a little bit of like what you just did of being like, do I walk away from this and genuinely feel like >> Yes. >> now I have more energy or is it like now I need to go to sleep? >> Yes. >> You know? >> Yes. >> I don't know. >> Yeah. And I think that I didn't realize that. That was like a revelation, I think. And I think that it's hard to figure that out because we all instinctively have like I don't I instinctively like Instagram pops out and I'm scrolling without even really thinking about doing that cuz my brain wanted a break. >> Mhm. >> And it does give me something. It gives me some break, but it cost me something like I'm hungry and I stop at like in an hour or something like well, In-N-Out's great. But in McDonald's >> [laughter] >> Okay, you're hungry, stop at McDonald's. Yeah, it helped you. Yeah. So now you're full. So you're like, oh, that's great. Then like time goes on and you're like, I don't feel like 100%. >> Mhm. >> I don't feel great. I don't feel like that fed me. >> Mhm. >> So there are there are like fast food rest things and then there's like someone made you a home cooked meal from vegetables in their garden, you know? >> Yeah. >> You're going to walk away the next day and you're going to be like, whoa, I feel amazing. Why do I feel amazing? I [snorts] felt full and then I felt amazing. I didn't feel full and then I felt bad. There's like that I think that's the the tricky things to avoid or try to do less of, I guess, for me. >> I got to I got to confess something to you, man. I I >> [laughter] >> Let's go. Let's go. >> I um >> [clears throat] >> probably a couple months ago I genuinely was like man I have heard nothing but good things about the ruthless elimination of hurry. Okay? I heard nothing but good things about it. So I got it on Audible. >> Yeah. >> Cuz I I audiobook everything. So when I'm driving, I I audiobook. And um I >> [laughter] >> I press go, but I listen to a lot of audiobooks. So, I listen >> it. >> on like 1.7 speed. >> [laughter] >> And I start listening to this book called The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry on 1.7 speed. And I get through the the the prologue. Right? The or the preface? >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. >> And in tears in my car. >> Mhm. >> And I just at the same time was like I don't think I'm ready to read this yet. >> Woah. >> And I haven't picked it back up. >> Woah. What made you emotional? >> Well, oh, I mean 100% just the I mean the whole concept is just him going like don't you realize what has happened? Like everything for I honestly I get I get I get emotional about weird things I think sometimes, but it's like the same. Um he's talking about like the invention of the sundial. Like I could cry again right now, dude. Literally, it's like he's talking about the invention of the sundial. And how um before the sundial there was only one thing in the sky that would tell you there was there was no hours. It was like, "Oh, it was it's light out and then it's evening out." Right? And that's what determines time. So, if I'm like, "Hey, I'll come over to your house during the light time." Like I might be there at 11:00 or I might be there at noon or what these things, you know? Um but then the sundial was invented. And it's like now we know exactly what hour it is. >> Mhm. >> And then in what and I'm I'm not going to remember the the years, but he talks about then um the first clock tower was erected. And now there's a clock >> Yes. >> that is telling the right time. And to remind everybody, it's got a bell on it. And it's ringing out the hours to make sure that you're in the right place at the right time. And then technology progresses even more and more and more clock towers start popping up. Then we get this wristwatch. And now this wristwatch is a constant reminder so that every 30 seconds you can look and see what time it is. And then the iPhone's invented. And I can pull out my phone and I can actually set reminders on my phone down to the second to let me know and keep me on time. And the boxes just keep getting smaller and smaller and smaller. Yet this was what blew my mind. The amount of sleep that people have, the amount of rest that people have has gotten less and less the more defined time becomes. That just was like it blew me away. It did. >> And then what has it holding you back from reading it? >> Um honestly, it's it's one of those things where I personally, I can completely relate with you in like a feeling of like right now is the time where my head is down. If I think about it. And um two kids under two. Um three if you include this podcast four businesses between my wife and I. And um a lot of running. >> Right? We've talked about it before. It just It feels like juggling. >> Yes. >> And it's like, what do you mean the ruthless elimination of hurry? Like I I have these balls in the air that I'm juggling right now. And, you know, yet um No, you know what I did that I'm remembering? I um I ordered the book to buy to hold it paperback. >> going to read it. If you're an audible guy, I order books all the time, I never read them. I only listen to them. >> I know. But the the the the thought behind that >> Reading it slowly through. >> at night time to read that and go slowly through it. >> [laughter] >> And I Yeah, I don't know. Um >> You should read it cuz it's not like the Bible, it's not going to like give you all the answers to life and stuff like that. It's actually just like a friend who can [clears throat] relate to you. >> Yeah. >> Like I don't know if you know his story, but it's primarily from his story, which was he was overworking, he was And for good things. He was like a leader of a church or pastor of a church. He was doing a lot of good things. And I think that's what gets me mostly actually >> Too much good things. >> We could do a whole 'nother podcast about what I shared at our our group last time at the nonprofit thing of like, I just keep saying yes to good things cuz God is in this cuz this is going to do something good. Like this is for the kingdom. This is like, you know, I don't I should do this. Why would I not? This is what I'm here to do. I'm here to do things and love people. And and yet God is teaching me currently today like right at this moment in my life. So, I have not learned this yet. I'm being taught this lesson. You are not required to do anything. I just love you as you are. Like if you do not If you leave this podcast and I just go sit at home >> [laughter] >> just like do nothing for the kingdom, nothing for God with my life, he will still love me just as much as if I became Mother Teresa, the male version of it. Uh there is >> Father Teresa. >> Yeah, Father Teresa. [laughter] Like [snorts] that is And so with that is like Oh, what Why am I feeling like I need to do all these? >> Mhm. >> Uh maybe And this is where God's calling me out. Maybe you're feeling a need to perform for my love, and you can just drop that right now. I'm not interested. Some some wise dude on Instagram as I was scrolling, some old I like to Anyone who's got gray hair and talking about Jesus, I'm listening to. Uh and he's shared this thing that was like, "I used to be When I was young, I wanted to do so many good things for Jesus." >> Yeah. >> I wanted to do so many good things for Jesus. And then what I would tell myself, the younger version, he's like, "You're going to One day, you're going to slow down when you get older, and God's going to go, 'I miss you. You were working so hard for me. You didn't really get to hang out with me. And I just wanted to hang out with you.'" I'm like, "Oh gosh. Oh, that's what you want for me? I thought I thought we were like saving the world together." Like that was my perspective, like um But truly, he's I Currently, this is what I'm learning for myself. So with all those disclaimers, it's just like God just seems like he's like, "David, >> You're preaching to the choir, right? >> can we just hang out?" And I'm like, "That's it?" And so I'm I'm leaning into um doing some experiments to see if that's true. So like what I said we were going to foster at the beginning of this year, fostering adoption has been something we've been aware of and wanted to get involved with in some however capacity. So this year, we started to do it, started doing trainings, and I started to feel overwhelmed and been like, "Oh my gosh, I I feel the same. I have so much in my life that's very difficult, but I feel like fostering adopting would be good, and God wants this." And I prayed and like uh someone the group gave me advice, like pray and fast. And like that was the first I prayed and fast. >> Oh, yeah. >> Um I didn't I don't know if I did it wrong, but I didn't feel anything insane from that. I felt like I was like, "Yeah, you can foster." Okay, so I was like, "All right, Kate, I think we can do it." And then later that week I was like, I don't I don't know if we have to foster. >> Mhm. >> I felt like I was going like, "You can choose. You can and you cannot." And someone who fosters a bunch of kids actually was like, "Yeah." I was asking him like, "How is it? Are you surviving? Like what's life?" And he was like, "We love it." He's like, "And God God loves me just the same like if I don't foster it at all or if I never fostered it and if I did." And he went on to say something else, but that just like jammed in my head of like, "Whoa." And so we said no. We called him and canceled it. We were in the middle of a process and we canceled it and said, "We're going to wait a year." >> Yeah. >> And I felt like that little experience was like, "God, will you still love me >> Mhm. >> if I don't foster?" >> Mhm. There's um you know Sleeping at Last? >> Yeah, I love him. >> So, he did that whole album that is just called Enneagram. >> Yes. >> And it has one for each of the numbers, right? I don't know what your Enneagram is. What's >> I'm a nine. >> You're a nine, okay. I'm a three. >> Okay. >> The three is the achiever. Is like, [laughter] "Let me show you my worth by the things that I do." Right? That Sleeping at Last song, you open it up and the first words say, "Maybe I've done enough." And it was [clears throat] just like, "Dude." Uh I listen to that song frequently. >> Wow. [sighs] >> And uh yeah, that whole concept >> Yeah. >> of going like, "Huh. You're it's still I I think I believe it, but it's still something that's like, "No, that doesn't make sense to my spirit. That's like if I There's still got to be something that I I give. >> Yes. >> Right? >> There's still I I'm my works contribute to these things, right? >> Yes. >> And then I read the word and Jesus is like No, I'm I want you like your your good works are as filthy rags to me. Like I that's not what has value. That's not the diamond. Right? >> It's you are the one that I love, not the works that you do. And that's like Ooh. I don't know. I still truly have a hard time believing that. >> Same. I think this is like the season that I am learning that. Like I'm trying learning as in like out of here to here. And someone was preaching or talking giving a talk at a church um and he quoted I think it was Tim Keller or something, but he said like there's two words obedience and acceptance and often times it looks like obedience equals acceptance like and sometimes that's how we were raised and that's like sometimes it's like community as well like >> [snorts] >> you perform and then we say good job. You're accepted. Come on in. And and God is like this. He's like I don't He's like you are loved and accepted first. Like that is who you are and then because you when you experience that and you fully actually like experience that >> Mhm. >> you will accidentally be obedient. >> Yeah. >> Like you will because you're like loved and acceptance you you are obedient because of that. Like you obey because you're not trying to earn your dad's love. You obey because you know you are loved and you love him. >> Yeah. >> And it's like and that that where else could we go? What else what else could I do? >> Mhm. >> Except for You know, the the Bible talks about um our lives being a living sacrifice. The entirety of our lives being a living sacrifice unto God, right? And it says as is your reasonable service. This is what it says right after that. >> Woah. Which is just like No, like Let's just Let's just think about this. You were not um You were not righteous. Yet God loved you in spite of that to the point where he sent Jesus to die for you. >> And then what he asks of you is that your life become a living sacrifice. >> Mhm. >> Not because he wants you to do all of these things, but instead because that is the reasonable thing to do. >> Yes. >> That if anybody came in and saved my life >> [laughter] >> from imminent destruction and wrath, it's like I would go All right, man. I'm yours now. Like what do you want me to >> [laughter] >> do? Right? You It's like the obedience comes second to that. >> Yes. Yes. >> Um and I think that that is something that um I don't know. I think even outside of of Christian circles >> Mhm. >> is something that we have as Christians done a very bad job of portraying sometimes. >> Oh, yeah. >> That's like >> Oh, yeah. >> Well, I mean how how many times have we heard it's like Well, I'm too dirty to come into church or like >> 100%. >> I'm not going to walk in that building cuz if I walk in the building, the walls are going to cave in and collapse on me. Right? It's like No, but this perspective of like you are immensely loved beyond anything that you can imagine. >> Yeah. >> Not because of anything that you have done or haven't done. >> Yes. >> But simply because somebody made you and loves what they have made. >> Yes. >> And they want to God wants to be with you. And then it's like but it's not even a And then we'll get you. And then we'll And then you can obey all of these things." That's not the It's not a got you. >> Yes. >> It's like a No, hey, like your dad loves you, so he he's set up the manual for how you should live. >> Yes. >> So that you'll work right. >> Mhm. Mhm. >> Because he made he made you. >> Yes. >> So he wrote the manual to [laughter] you. >> Yes. Yeah. And it's so interesting like for anyone who is not grown up in the church or is uh that still sounds weird to you. Like I think I grew up like hearing that all the time and just being like I just don't get it. Like I understand it all. Like I It's been explained to me so off like logically it's been argued, it's been explained. Like I don't like I think there is a point where if you would like to really understand that, you can just ask God and like pursue him like you would a relationship. Um like if you have a friend you want to be friends with, there's someone like you know what, I want to know that guy more. There's a girl you want to get to know more. Like you would pursue them and ask to hang out and ask questions about them. And um I think you can actually engage with God in that way of like that's what I've been practicing recently is like God you say you love me. I want to know that. I want to know that here. But I want to understand it. I see it. I hear about it all the time. I want to know it. Show me. Show me. Like and like engaging with him. And like then all of a sudden like Bible verses that I've read my whole life or heard a thousand times or even what you just kind of explained are like I'm hearing it for the first time. That's what you meant this whole time? >> [laughter] >> You mean he really loves me? Like I really love like oh my god. I I just thought it was like part of the I don't know, the story. Like when story I mean like it's just separate from me. Like something that has happened and it just is. Like But it's like no, no, no. >> [laughter] >> No, that's this and and it's that that's been so interesting. Growing up with this Christian, being Christian as an adult and like I think just like it's weird to hear it until you experience it, I guess is what I'd say. And so if you're interested at all, that sounds like something that's awesome and you would hope is true. Like why not just like explore. Like pursue that relationship for a little bit and see if you feel loved by God. See if see if that if if God is real, like if he shows up for you basically. Like pursue him. I think you can. Like if that is confusing pursue it till it's not confusing. >> Yeah. Yeah, yeah. [laughter] There's I mean it's it's you open up the Bible and it says God's saying this. He says seek me. >> Mhm. >> And if you seek me you will find me. Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> That's what it says. The creator of the universe. >> Yes. Saying come find me. >> Yes. Yes. >> And that to me is just like uh >> And you have to pursue him. I think in some you have to. Like I think you have to. You have like a couple friends who have kind of gone through that moment or like I don't know. This is But sometimes you hear like God, if you're real like go ahead and speak. >> Oh, he didn't speak and so now it's not real. >> Yeah, yeah. Moving on. I knew it was wrong. >> Mhm. >> It's like okay. >> [laughter] >> In what other context of relationship is that that you're approached to? >> Yeah. >> The relationship. >> Have you ever done that with Yeah, David, you're a friend dude. >> Yeah. >> Talk to me. >> Do you love me like and then yeah. [laughter] >> It's like yeah. It's a weird approach, but I understand it cuz sometimes it is like taught that way or like God will just speak to you like and that has not always been true in my case. Like I think it's like it's this it's a mystery and I think if you can kind of accept some of that like it is it's kind of crazy that we're here and we're humans and we all just are going to die soon and there's insanely like freakishly weird creatures in the bottom of the ocean like you can go look up like where we live and exist in is very strange and there's lots of it we don't understand. >> Yeah. >> Mystery is the best way to describe that. There are there are mysteries and I think if you can just accept a little bit of that like okay this is a bit wider or bigger than maybe even my capacity ever to understand as this human being like okay there's some of this that's a mystery and so I kind of need to like be okay with some of this grayness throughout and uh that's that's been the realest version of Jesus in my life because um often times on stage or in things that you're you're summing up something that is is very mysterious and wide into a sound bite and then sometimes I think that can confuse us to to make conclusions about a God that are maybe not true. >> It's really good. This was such a fun conversation. >> So good. >> [laughter] >> I'm just I'm just stoked and listen if if you're listening right now and you are going through something tough um if you're in a season where you you feel disassociated like you're nose is to the grindstone welcome to the party. >> [laughter] >> If if you have had an an unexpected pregnancy and it's it's a big life changing moment for you um we got David here sharing his story and and um, then diving into identity and all these different [laughter] things, too. Spending your time, all these things. We can go forever, I really think. >> infinite things we can talk about. >> And what that makes me think is that there needs to be an episode two at some point. >> Let's go. Let's go. Let's let's make that happen. >> I'll only come back if you promise to read Ruthless Elimination of Hurry. >> [laughter] >> When I finish it, I'll have you back. >> man. Thanks man. We can talk about it. That's what we can do. >> That's That's crazy. That's awesome. I love it. Um, you guys, we're here for you. Um, you are not alone. And um, if you have questions or you have um, thoughts or you need to vent about something, our comment section is for you. So, um, you guys, if if you like this, one thing you can do to support this channel is like and subscribe and share this. Um, if you're seeing this as a bit on social media, then follow and all that kind of stuff. Um, but yeah, you're not alone. And uh, the creator wants to know you. >> Mhm. >> And he loves you. >> So much. >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> David, >> Yes. >> thanks so much for being on, man. >> Dude, it's an absolute honor. Thanks for having me, man. >> [laughter] >> Brett.